[SURBL-Discuss] RE: Requesting removal from blacklist

Greg Schuler GregS at aptimus.com
Sat May 20 00:08:23 CEST 2006


Hi Bill,

I appreciate your quick response.  And I'm interested in what others on the mailing list might have to say about this as well.

In answer to your questions:

>If you've assembled a live customer list 
>with UBE for a few years, then stop sending UBE, doesn't that mean you get 
>the benefits of that UBE even after you stop sending it?

I don't believe so.  First, even though we didn't have a 100% closed-loop opt-in list process, most of the email we sent was not UBE.  We only emailed names collected from what we believed were legitimate transactions on our partner web sites.  The consumer was always presented with a privacy policy and terms of service that told them they would be agreeing to receive future email offers by completing the transaction. So while it wasn't perfect, we were making an effort to be sure the email we sent had the end-user's permission. We ultimately learned that this wasn't sufficient.  The fact that we ended up with spam traps and other "bad" addresses in our email lists is proof that our process was flawed.  So we decided to exit the email business in December, 2005.  Had we continued to email "live customers" after that, then yes I suppose you could say we were still benefiting from past practices. But we didn't do that. 

> 	Secondly, I went back to the mail I've gotten from aptimus 
>.net/com for the past few years to look at the "partner" domains (domains 
>also linked to in mails that point at aptimus .net/com.  A number of them 
>continue to send UBE, which makes me wonder if perhaps you've stopped 
>using your own domain name in the mails but continue to send UBE (that's 
>not an accusation, it literally is a question).  Would you be willing to 
>help me understand your relationships with the following domains?  The 
>following are the ones that I've seen in 2006:
>
>Jan  8 03:17 tr1usc .com
>Jan 15 16:22 consumertoday .net
>Jan 15 16:22 aptimus .com
>Jan 15 16:22 alnimglrhyd .cc
>Jan 20 02:45 alnimglrbsh .cc
>Jan 20 02:45 alnclklrbsh .com
>Jan 20 02:45 mediamarketsystem .com
>Jan 21 22:55 collectiblestoday .com
>Jan 27 01:31 removeservice .com
>Feb  4 04:34 thrifthealth .com
>Mar 11 02:29 alnclklrhyd .com
>Mar 11 02:30 eforcemedia .com
>Mar 11 02:32 laih .com
>Mar 12 15:00 emarketmakers .com
>Mar 12 22:44 dentalplans .com
>Mar 12 22:44 intriguelearning .com
>Apr 16 02:09 dnelist .com
>Apr 16 02:09 esideliver .com

Question: are you saying that these domains continue to send UBE that ALSO continue to contain references to Aptimus?  If so, that could be bad (and we'd very much like to know about it).  Otherwise, of the above listed domains the only one we have a direct relationship with (other than aptimus.com, of course), is consumertoday.net.  We own that domain and it was one of the domains we used for email marketing.  We stopped using consumertoday.net in December, 2005.

Please let me know if you have any further questions, and I look forward to a (hopefully positive) response on the delisting of our domains.

Regards,

Greg Schuler
Aptimus, Inc.


-----Original Message-----
From: William Stearns [mailto:wstearns at pobox.com]
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 1:47 PM
To: Greg Schuler; ml-surbl-discuss
Cc: William Stearns
Subject: Re: Requesting removal from blacklist


Good morning, Greg,
 	I've CC'd the surbl mailing list with this post because I'd like 
to hear the opinions of the other member of the surbl team.

On Thu, 18 May 2006, Greg Schuler wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> As the IT director for Aptimus I have for some time known that our 
> domain has been blacklisted.  This is because Aptimus was formerly in 
> the email marketing business and we did not have a 100% closed-loop 
> opt-in process.

 	During that time I received a relatively steady supply of UBE to a 
small number of spamtraps, so I'm hesitant to remove your domain without 
some discussion.

> We left the email business last year and for all of 2006 we have sent 
> email only to those end users who have "transacted" on our partner web

 	We appreciate your taking a positive step and contacting us after 
that; that's one of the reasons why I'm seriously considering your 
request.

> sites.  We do not add these email addresses to any mailing lists and we 
> never send a user more than one message (e.g. these are confirmation 
> messages sent to acknowledge a legitimate web-based transaction such as 
> purchasing a product, entering a contest, signing up for a newsletter or 
> service or some similar activity).  Unfortunately it seems even sending 
> a confirmation message is considered "Spam" by some people and we still 
> get a few complaints, but never more than a couple per month.

 	Confirmation messages with no other commercial content are not 
considered spam in our project, so you're OK there.

> Based on the above, would it be possible to have aptimus.com and 
> aptimus.net removed from your list?  If not, could you explain why?  If 
> there's something else we need to do to get our domains cleaned up I'd 
> really like to know.

 	The last aptimus.net mail I got was from January 15th, so that 
tends to support what you said.
 	I have a few questions.  If you've assembled a live customer list 
with UBE for a few years, then stop sending UBE, doesn't that mean you get 
the benefits of that UBE even after you stop sending it?
 	Secondly, I went back to the mail I've gotten from aptimus 
.net/com for the past few years to look at the "partner" domains (domains 
also linked to in mails that point at aptimus .net/com.  A number of them 
continue to send UBE, which makes me wonder if perhaps you've stopped 
using your own domain name in the mails but continue to send UBE (that's 
not an accusation, it literally is a question).  Would you be willing to 
help me understand your relationships with the following domains?  The 
following are the ones that I've seen in 2006:

Jan  8 03:17 tr1usc .com
Jan 15 16:22 consumertoday .net
Jan 15 16:22 aptimus .com
Jan 15 16:22 alnimglrhyd .cc
Jan 20 02:45 alnimglrbsh .cc
Jan 20 02:45 alnclklrbsh .com
Jan 20 02:45 mediamarketsystem .com
Jan 21 22:55 collectiblestoday .com
Jan 27 01:31 removeservice .com
Feb  4 04:34 thrifthealth .com
Mar 11 02:29 alnclklrhyd .com
Mar 11 02:30 eforcemedia .com
Mar 11 02:32 laih .com
Mar 12 15:00 emarketmakers .com
Mar 12 22:44 dentalplans .com
Mar 12 22:44 intriguelearning .com
Apr 16 02:09 dnelist .com
Apr 16 02:09 esideliver .com


> Thanks and regards,
>
> Greg Schuler
> Director, Technology & Operations
> Aptimus, Inc. (NASDAQ: APTM)
> The Point-of-Action Online
> Advertising Network
>
> 100 Spear Street, Suite 1115
> San Francisco, CA 94105
> Ph: 415-896-2123 x242
> Fax: 208-361-2452
> Mobile: 415-596-6127
> gregs at aptimus.com

 	Cheers,
 	- Bill

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
          "My fellow Americans. I've signed legislation that will outlaw
Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."
         - President Reagan, before a scheduled radio broadcast, unaware
that the microphone was already on...
(Courtesy of Brian S. Dellinger <Brian.Dellinger at Dartmouth.EDU>)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Stearns (wstearns at pobox.com).  Mason, Buildkernel, freedups, p0f,
rsync-backup, ssh-keyinstall, dns-check, more at:   http://www.stearns.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



More information about the Discuss mailing list