keepitoffforlife.com is black listed.
We have never sent an email from this site.
The site just came live only about six weeks ago.
To remove ourselves from the blacklist we must show our typical message headers REQUIRED.
We have no advertising for this site yet, so I have no headers.
So, am I being asked to lie and make something up?
This feels like catch 22.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Very frustrating, my software engineer who is building the site cannot even reference the site in his emails to me without getting them bounced.
Best Regards,
James Schmidt james.schmidt@netzero.net
Hi!
keepitoffforlife.com is black listed.
We have never sent an email from this site.
The site just came live only about six weeks ago.
To remove ourselves from the blacklist we must show our typical message headers REQUIRED.
We have no advertising for this site yet, so I have no headers.
So, am I being asked to lie and make something up?
This feels like catch 22.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Whitelist requests are not handled on the mailinglist. End of thread, sorry.
You should mail to whitelist@surbl.org.
Bye, Raymond.
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On May 7, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Raymond Dijkxhoorn wrote:
Whitelist requests are not handled on the mailinglist. End of thread, sorry.
Well I hate be contrary but the URIBL web site says otherwise. This is an often repeated "rule" on this mailing list but the URIBL website specifically directs people to this list for precisely this purpose.
Me (who is way more hardcore than any of the URIBL admins) thinks it is fine for people to post these type of things here but if it really isn't then the URIBL website needs to be revise to not point people here for that purpose then.
Chris
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chris Owen - Garden City (620) 275-1900 - Lottery (noun): President - Wichita (316) 858-3000 - A stupidity tax Hubris Communications Inc www.hubris.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Hi!
Whitelist requests are not handled on the mailinglist. End of thread, sorry.
is an often repeated "rule" on this mailing list but the URIBL website specifically directs people to this list for precisely this purpose.
Me (who is way more hardcore than any of the URIBL admins) thinks it is fine for people to post these type of things here but if it really isn't then the URIBL website needs to be revise to not point people here for that purpose then.
I think i was pretty clear. End of thread.
Bye, Raymond.
No Raymond it is not clear and your unilateral "I'm closing the thread" reply is not going to wash.
If you look at the removal form it does NOT offer any means for a person whose domain is listed to get delisted unless they can provide email headers etc.,
Now if you want to be a list nazi that's your prerogative, but unless you accept that the SURBL website is flawed I'm afraid you're going to lose support from ISPs like ourselves
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://mneylon.tel/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
Hi!
No Raymond it is not clear and your unilateral "I'm closing the thread" reply is not going to wash.
If you look at the removal form it does NOT offer any means for a person whose domain is listed to get delisted unless they can provide email headers etc.,
Now if you want to be a list nazi that's your prerogative, but unless you accept that the SURBL website is flawed I'm afraid you're going to lose support from ISPs like ourselves
If you want to talk about the SURBL site please open a new thread, no problem at all. We are handling this whitelist request with the person directly.
We just do not handle delisting requests on the mailinglist. Thats not what is is here for. We cannot hand out example material here on the list. We cannot discuss things that we regularly do on the whitelist alias.
We get various delisting requests a week and they are handled in a professional way. There are a lot of well known people on that alias and thats what its used for.
If the form needs to be changed, fine, tell so, but dont drop your whitelist requests here. We wont handle them here.
Bye, Raymond.
Hi!
Now if you want to be a list nazi that's your prerogative, but unless you accept that the SURBL website is flawed I'm afraid you're going to lose support from ISPs like ourselves
If you want to talk about the SURBL site please open a new thread, no problem at all. We are handling this whitelist request with the person directly.
We just do not handle delisting requests on the mailinglist. Thats not what is is here for. We cannot hand out example material here on the list. We cannot discuss things that we regularly do on the whitelist alias.
We get various delisting requests a week and they are handled in a professional way. There are a lot of well known people on that alias and thats what its used for.
If the form needs to be changed, fine, tell so, but dont drop your whitelist requests here. We wont handle them here.
Form will be changed to point people in the right direction, you can also read in the SURBL FAQ:
(http://www.surbl.org/faq.html#whitelist)
If you know of a legitimate site that should be globally whitelisted but isn't currently, you're welcome to report it to whitelist at surbl dot org for consideration. In other words some of your local whitelist entries may be appropriate for global whitelisting. If you know them to be legitimate for certain, then other SURBL users may benefit from the knowledge you choose to share with the community.
Feel free to submit them to whitelist@surbl.org.
Bye, Raymond.
"We just do not handle delisting requests on the mailinglist. Thats not what is is here for."
That is understood. What is not understood is why it is so hard to get a delisting request through proper channels, that many have to resort to this list out of desperation. If we don't have the magic formula to get the site to accept our request, and our mail is rejected, what are we supposed to do?
You call us spammers and slam the door in our face. As bad as spam is, I think it is worse to interfere with legitimate email and provide no way to report mistakes.
Raymond Dijkxhoorn wrote:
Hi!
No Raymond it is not clear and your unilateral "I'm closing the thread" reply is not going to wash.
If you look at the removal form it does NOT offer any means for a person whose domain is listed to get delisted unless they can provide email headers etc.,
Now if you want to be a list nazi that's your prerogative, but unless you accept that the SURBL website is flawed I'm afraid you're going to lose support from ISPs like ourselves
If you want to talk about the SURBL site please open a new thread, no problem at all. We are handling this whitelist request with the person directly.
We just do not handle delisting requests on the mailinglist. Thats not what is is here for. We cannot hand out example material here on the list. We cannot discuss things that we regularly do on the whitelist alias.
We get various delisting requests a week and they are handled in a professional way. There are a lot of well known people on that alias and thats what its used for.
If the form needs to be changed, fine, tell so, but dont drop your whitelist requests here. We wont handle them here.
Bye, Raymond. _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.surbl.org http://lists.surbl.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Hi!
"We just do not handle delisting requests on the mailinglist. Thats not what is is here for."
That is understood. What is not understood is why it is so hard to get a delisting request through proper channels, that many have to resort to this list out of desperation. If we don't have the magic formula to get the site to accept our request, and our mail is rejected, what are we supposed to do?
You call us spammers and slam the door in our face. As bad as spam is, I think it is worse to interfere with legitimate email and provide no way to report mistakes.
With every list there will be people saying it will hurt their legitimate mailflow. We do not block anything hoewever. Its every mailproviders free choise to pick a list for filtering mail.
If your delisting request wasnt handled like you expected drop a not on whitelist@surbl.org and we will follow up with you there.
Thanks, Raymond.
You missed my point. When I tried to send email to the whitelist address given, it was rejected.
All I'm saying is that people should be given an opportunity to clear their name. Your system assumes that the blacklisted domain has been sending advertising and you want to judge whether it's spam or not. If we don't use the domain for advertising, we have no way of complying with your form requirements. When we tried to contact you using the alternate method, our email was rejected by your servers, because it is on your blacklist.
I understand that you are not blocking anything, but recommending it to people who trust your list results in the same thing. We have to go to each recipient and ask that they stop using your list in order to get our mail through. It would be better for all concerned, to make it easier to correct the problem at it's source.
The present system clogs up the list with things that should be handled in private, and results in people having to drop your service in order to receive legitimate email. That means the spammers win.
BTW, How would blacklisting a domain NOT hurt legitimate email from that domain?
Raymond Dijkxhoorn wrote:
Hi!
"We just do not handle delisting requests on the mailinglist. Thats not what is is here for."
That is understood. What is not understood is why it is so hard to get a delisting request through proper channels, that many have to resort to this list out of desperation. If we don't have the magic formula to get the site to accept our request, and our mail is rejected, what are we supposed to do?
You call us spammers and slam the door in our face. As bad as spam is, I think it is worse to interfere with legitimate email and provide no way to report mistakes.
With every list there will be people saying it will hurt their legitimate mailflow. We do not block anything hoewever. Its every mailproviders free choise to pick a list for filtering mail.
If your delisting request wasnt handled like you expected drop a not on whitelist@surbl.org and we will follow up with you there.
Thanks, Raymond. _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.surbl.org http://lists.surbl.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
On 5/7/09, webdev webdev@storedk.com wrote:
You missed my point. When I tried to send email to the whitelist address given, it was rejected.
Do you have a bounce message? There is almost no filtering of the whitelist email address currently.
All I'm saying is that people should be given an opportunity to clear their name. Your system assumes that the blacklisted domain has been sending advertising and you want to judge whether it's spam or not. If we don't use the domain for advertising, we have no way of complying with your form requirements. When we tried to contact you using the alternate method, our email was rejected by your servers, because it is on your blacklist.
We don't filter our removal requests using our own data. If we did that, then how would anyone be able to contact us about removals?
I understand that you are not blocking anything, but recommending it to people who trust your list results in the same thing. We have to go to each recipient and ask that they stop using your list in order to get our mail through. It would be better for all concerned, to make it easier to correct the problem at it's source.
The present system clogs up the list with things that should be handled in private, and results in people having to drop your service in order to receive legitimate email. That means the spammers win.
BTW, How would blacklisting a domain NOT hurt legitimate email from that domain?
Because SURBL isn't a mail filter or a mail filtering service. SURBL does not block mail. SURBL is an information source about web sites that have appeared in unsolicited messages. How people use that information is entirely determined by the users of the information. Some mail adminstrators use the information to tag messages. Some people use the data for security research. SURBL doesn't control any of that.
" We don't filter our removal requests using our own data. If we did that, then how would anyone be able to contact us about removals?"
This is exactly what I'm trying to get across. Whatever method you are using is preventing us from using the email address you give us. When we try to get somewhere here, we are slapped on the wrist and told that this is not the place to discuss it - "thread closed".
I already stated that I know you are not the one doing the blocking. I'm trying to suggest that your list would be far more valuable if you didn't include domains that were not guilty of spamming. This requires an easy method to report problems.
I have contacted email admins in the past with a simple email requesting whitelisting and they took care of it in a couple of days. Both parties understood that if there was a real spam problem, the whitelisting would be removed.
Here you are treated as an enemy until you find a way to prove otherwise. I've already taken care of our problem by getting the other email administrators to stop using the list. Now I'm just trying to help others that got caught in the same catch 22 that I did. Saying that you are not responsible for how others use your information, while true, demonstrates a total lack of sympathy for the plight that innocent people find themselves in as a result of the information you provide. I would think that you would have an interest in providing the most accurate information possible.
SURBL Whitelisters wrote:
On 5/7/09, webdev webdev@storedk.com wrote:
You missed my point. When I tried to send email to the whitelist address given, it was rejected.
Do you have a bounce message? There is almost no filtering of the whitelist email address currently.
All I'm saying is that people should be given an opportunity to clear their name. Your system assumes that the blacklisted domain has been sending advertising and you want to judge whether it's spam or not. If we don't use the domain for advertising, we have no way of complying with your form requirements. When we tried to contact you using the alternate method, our email was rejected by your servers, because it is on your blacklist.
We don't filter our removal requests using our own data. If we did that, then how would anyone be able to contact us about removals?
I understand that you are not blocking anything, but recommending it to people who trust your list results in the same thing. We have to go to each recipient and ask that they stop using your list in order to get our mail through. It would be better for all concerned, to make it easier to correct the problem at it's source.
The present system clogs up the list with things that should be handled in private, and results in people having to drop your service in order to receive legitimate email. That means the spammers win.
BTW, How would blacklisting a domain NOT hurt legitimate email from that domain?
Because SURBL isn't a mail filter or a mail filtering service. SURBL does not block mail. SURBL is an information source about web sites that have appeared in unsolicited messages. How people use that information is entirely determined by the users of the information. Some mail adminstrators use the information to tag messages. Some people use the data for security research. SURBL doesn't control any of that. _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.surbl.org http://lists.surbl.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
On 5/8/09, webdev webdev@storedk.com wrote:
" We don't filter our removal requests using our own data. If we did that, then how would anyone be able to contact us about removals?"
This is exactly what I'm trying to get across. Whatever method you are using is preventing us from using the email address you give us.
Can you provide a bounce or error message? Because the whitelist address currently has almost no filtering on it.
Try sending a message to see if it gets through to whitelist at surbl . org
If it doesn't get through, then post the bounce here and we'll try to correct any problems.
As you can see we are trying to make a good effort.
I already stated that I know you are not the one doing the blocking. I'm trying to suggest that your list would be far more valuable if you didn't include domains that were not guilty of spamming. This requires an easy method to report problems.
We have a web form and email address that most people have no problem using.
If you're having difficulty, will you let us help with it?
I have contacted email admins in the past with a simple email requesting whitelisting and they took care of it in a couple of days. Both parties understood that if there was a real spam problem, the whitelisting would be removed.
SURBL removal requests are often processed within a few hours.
Here you are treated as an enemy until you find a way to prove otherwise.
Given the above, that would appear to be a misperception or mistatement.
I've already taken care of our problem by getting the other email administrators to stop using the list.
Who are the mail administrators? Can we contact them to let them hear our side?
Now I'm just trying to help others that got caught in the same catch 22 that I did. Saying that you are not responsible for how others use your information, while true, demonstrates a total lack of sympathy for the plight that innocent people find themselves in as a result of the information you provide.
If you knew how much effort we put into data quality, you would know that your statement is unfair.
I would think that you would have an interest in providing the most accurate information possible.
Of course. Independent tests show that our information is highly accurate.
Reference:
On 5/7/09, webdev webdev@storedk.com wrote:
"We just do not handle delisting requests on the mailinglist. Thats not what is is here for."
That is understood. What is not understood is why it is so hard to get a delisting request through proper channels, that many have to resort to this list out of desperation. If we don't have the magic formula to get the site to accept our request, and our mail is rejected, what are we supposed to do?
Please use plain text to fill out the removal form. Most people will probably agree that is a very simple requirement.
If for some reason you are unable to use the removal form, then please send all of the required information by email to:
whitelist@surbl.org
Raymond, STOP CLUTTERING MY INBOX WITH YOUR PROBLEM.
YOUR DOMAIN ISN'T EVEN LISTED -- I JUST CHECKED, SO STOP IT.
Don't you realize how many people you are bothering by using the wrong forum?
Show some professionalism, please; otherwise I'M GLAD YOU WERE BLACKLISTED AND REGRET THAT YOU NO LONGER ARE.
-----Original Message----- From: discuss-bounces@lists.surbl.org [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.surbl.org] On Behalf Of Raymond Dijkxhoorn Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 6:36 PM To: SURBL Discussion list Subject: Re: [SURBL-Discuss] Help!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi!
No Raymond it is not clear and your unilateral "I'm closing the thread" reply is not going to wash.
If you look at the removal form it does NOT offer any means for a person whose domain is listed to get delisted unless they can provide email headers etc.,
Now if you want to be a list nazi that's your prerogative, but unless you accept that the SURBL website is flawed I'm afraid you're going to lose support from ISPs like ourselves
If you want to talk about the SURBL site please open a new thread, no problem at all. We are handling this whitelist request with the person directly.
We just do not handle delisting requests on the mailinglist. Thats not what is is here for. We cannot hand out example material here on the list. We cannot discuss things that we regularly do on the whitelist alias.
We get various delisting requests a week and they are handled in a professional way. There are a lot of well known people on that alias and thats what its used for.
If the form needs to be changed, fine, tell so, but dont drop your whitelist requests here. We wont handle them here.
Bye, Raymond. _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.surbl.org http://lists.surbl.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Hi!
Raymond, STOP CLUTTERING MY INBOX WITH YOUR PROBLEM.
YOUR DOMAIN ISN'T EVEN LISTED -- I JUST CHECKED, SO STOP IT.
Pfew .... my domain isnt listed ... ;) :-)
Oh btw storedk <dot> com is also removed i saw. Data expire on the WS list.
Bye, Raymond.
On 5/7/09, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight michele@blacknight.ie wrote:
If you look at the removal form it does NOT offer any means for a person whose domain is listed to get delisted unless they can provide email headers etc.,
If the web removal form detects an error, it says:
print ("Please contact us by email at whitelist at our domain\n"); print ("if you have any questions.\n");
We will add more notes to the removal forms to tell people to email the information if they can't use the form.
Now if you want to be a list nazi that's your prerogative, but unless you accept that the SURBL website is flawed I'm afraid you're going to lose support from ISPs like ourselves
Thank you for your valuable feedback. SURBL hopes Blacknight will continue its kind support of our project.
Hello,
please configure your mailer to wrap lines below 80 characters per line. 72 to 75 is usually OK.
Thank you.
On 07.05.09 15:29, James wrote:
keepitoffforlife.com is black listed.
We have never sent an email from this site.
Are you sure nobody has sent spam mentioning or advertising anything under keepitoffforlife.com ? Are you sure the pages under do not contian spamvertised content? The surbl and other uri blacklists contains spamvertised sites, not sites who spammed anyone...
The site just came live only about six weeks ago.
To remove ourselves from the blacklist we must show our typical message headers REQUIRED.
We have no advertising for this site yet, so I have no headers.
Are you sure nobody other did? Did you check if someone hasn't put unwanted content on the page, some malware didn't catch your password and some other malware didn't spam with link to the site?
So, am I being asked to lie and make something up?
This feels like catch 22.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Very frustrating, my software engineer who is building the site cannot even reference the site in his emails to me without getting them bounced.
Are you sure nobody has sent spam mentioning or advertising anything under keepitoffforlife.com ? Are you sure the pages under do not contian spamvertised content? The surbl and other uri blacklists contains spamvertised sites, not sites who spammed anyone...
Therein lies the problem with some of the SURBL lists.
It is impossible for someone to be sure that emails have not been sent that have spamvertised their domain name.
I have had a domain listed in a SURBL list and not been aware of unsolicited emails sent with the domain in them. I asked to see a copy of the message that contained the domain or even just the information about the person who sent the message but was told that I could not.
There appear to be no safeguards for domain administrators. If any 3rd party starts sending spam emails with anydomainhere.com then that domain could be listed by SURBL and there is nothing the actual domain owner can do about it.
--Paul
On 5/7/09, Paul Rydell paul@networxonline.com wrote:
Are you sure nobody has sent spam mentioning or advertising anything under keepitoffforlife.com ? Are you sure the pages under do not contian spamvertised content? The surbl and other uri blacklists contains spamvertised sites, not sites who spammed anyone...
Therein lies the problem with some of the SURBL lists.
It is impossible for someone to be sure that emails have not been sent that have spamvertised their domain name.
I have had a domain listed in a SURBL list and not been aware of unsolicited emails sent with the domain in them. I asked to see a copy of the message that contained the domain or even just the information about the person who sent the message but was told that I could not.
There appear to be no safeguards for domain administrators. If any 3rd party starts sending spam emails with anydomainhere.com then that domain could be listed by SURBL and there is nothing the actual domain owner can do about it.
If you need help understanding how to monitor abuse of your affiliate marketing web sites, then you may want to ask deliverability companies or consultants for advice. They probably can help with that. Here are some references:
Institute for Spam and Internet Public Policy http://www.isipp.com/
Unspam http://www.unspam.com/
Habeas http://www.habeas.com/
Sender Score Certified http://www.senderscorecertified.com/
SURBL is not able to provide deliverability consulting services.
Same thing happened to our private email server that's used only to send business email. There isn't even a site contented to it and we have never advertised anything.
They do not provide anyway to fix this and no one seems to care about blacklisting legitimate email.
My client had to drop this service to get our email. Good luck.
All you will get here is "end of thread" (If we call you a spammer then you must be one - go away). It is a catch 22. Nothing you can do about it.
James wrote:
keepitoffforlife.com is black listed.
We have never sent an email from this site.
The site just came live only about six weeks ago.
To remove ourselves from the blacklist we must show our typical message headers REQUIRED.
We have no advertising for this site yet, so I have no headers.
So, am I being asked to lie and make something up?
This feels like catch 22.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Very frustrating, my software engineer who is building the site cannot even reference the site in his emails to me without getting them bounced.
Best Regards,
James Schmidt james.schmidt@netzero.net _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.surbl.org http://lists.surbl.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
On 5/7/09, webdev webdev@storedk.com wrote:
Same thing happened to our private email server that's used only to send business email. There isn't even a site contented to it and we have never advertised anything.
They do not provide anyway to fix this and no one seems to care about blacklisting legitimate email.
My client had to drop this service to get our email. Good luck.
All you will get here is "end of thread" (If we call you a spammer then you must be one - go away). It is a catch 22. Nothing you can do about it.
Please use plain text to fill out the removal form. If for some reason you are unable to use the removal form, then please send all of the required information by email to:
whitelist@surbl.org
-
Chris Owen -
James -
Matus UHLAR - fantomas -
Michele Neylon :: Blacknight -
Paul Rydell -
Raymond Dijkxhoorn -
SURBL Whitelisters -
Tom McGlinn -
webdev