Hi,
My ISP (www.bmts.com - Bruce Telecom, reachable at tech@brucetelecom.com) uses surbl to detect and block SPAM, however the debian mailing lists do not and this results in bounces of mail sent to the debian mailing lists and through it to me through my provider. This is bad because the debian mailing lists unsubscribe users who have too many bounces.
My ISP tells me to contact you to get the offending site removed, however I don't object to the site blacklisted, but to the listz.debian.org mail bouncing. I asked them to whitelist it but they just reiterated that I had to contact you.
I think they are wrong and not understand. Could someone kindly beat the over the head with instruction on how to whitelist listz.debian.org so that it is not blocked even if a surbl blacklisted URL is in the mail?
The address of their tech support is tech@brucetelecom.com
Please CC me if this is a busy list as I may then not see the message.
Regards,
Daniel
Not speaking on behalf of SURBL but using SURBL to block email is not a recommended usage. From http://www.surbl.org/
"direct blocking at the MTA level is not recommended. It's generally better to use SURBLs along with multiple, weighted factors, as SpamAssasssin does."
However, additionally, why are so many messages to the debian mailing list hitting surbl domains? Even the anti-spam mailing lists don't have this problem that much. If you are discussing questionable domains use <domain>-munge.com for example.
Or is the debian list infiltrated by spammers who are sending spam? Are you in digest mode and it's hitting on a bunch of email addresses or something?
Regards, KAM
----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Dickinson" cshore@brucetelecom.com To: discuss@lists.surbl.org Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:51 PM Subject: [SURBL-Discuss] Mailing list gets bounces from my mail providerbecause of surbl
Hi,
My ISP (www.bmts.com - Bruce Telecom, reachable at tech@brucetelecom.com) uses surbl to detect and block SPAM, however the debian mailing lists do not and this results in bounces of mail sent to the debian mailing lists and through it to me through my provider. This is bad because the debian mailing lists unsubscribe users who have too many bounces.
My ISP tells me to contact you to get the offending site removed, however I don't object to the site blacklisted, but to the listz.debian.org mail bouncing. I asked them to whitelist it but they just reiterated that I had to contact you.
I think they are wrong and not understand. Could someone kindly beat the over the head with instruction on how to whitelist listz.debian.org so that it is not blocked even if a surbl blacklisted URL is in the mail?
The address of their tech support is tech@brucetelecom.com
Please CC me if this is a busy list as I may then not see the message.
Regards,
Daniel
-- And that's my crabbing done for the day. Got it out of the way early, now I have the rest of the afternoon to sniff fragrant tea-roses or strangle cute bunnies or something. -- Michael Devore GnuPG Key Fingerprint 86 F5 81 A5 D4 2E 1F 1C http://gnupg.org The C Shore (Daniel Dickinson's Website) http://cshore.is-a-geek.com _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.surbl.org http://lists.surbl.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:29:18 -0400 "Kevin A. McGrail" kmcgrail@pccc.com wrote:
Not speaking on behalf of SURBL but using SURBL to block email is not a recommended usage. From http://www.surbl.org/
"direct blocking at the MTA level is not recommended. It's generally better to use SURBLs along with multiple, weighted factors, as SpamAssasssin does."
Hmmm...interesting
However, additionally, why are so many messages to the debian mailing list hitting surbl domains? Even the anti-spam mailing lists don't have this problem that much. If you are discussing questionable domains use <domain>-munge.com for example.
I think they just have a low threshold for bounces. One or two bounces enough for the kick-score (percentage of bounced emails) to start getting towards the threshold for unsubscription.
From: "Daniel Dickinson" cshore@brucetelecom.com
My ISP (www.bmts.com - Bruce Telecom, reachable at tech@brucetelecom.com) uses surbl to detect and block SPAM, however the debian mailing lists do not and this results in bounces of mail sent to the debian mailing lists and through it to me through my provider. This is bad because the debian mailing lists unsubscribe users who have too many bounces.
On 15.04.09 21:29, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
Not speaking on behalf of SURBL but using SURBL to block email is not a recommended usage. From http://www.surbl.org/
"direct blocking at the MTA level is not recommended. It's generally better to use SURBLs along with multiple, weighted factors, as SpamAssasssin does."
My question is, how does BMTS detect spam. If it uses spamassassin, allows users configure their preferences and SA uses them, user could apparently whitelist debian lists so mail from them wouldn't be rejected. (this might be question to spamassassin-users list)
However, additionally, why are so many messages to the debian mailing list hitting surbl domains? Even the anti-spam mailing lists don't have this problem that much. If you are discussing questionable domains use <domain>-munge.com for example.
Or is the debian list infiltrated by spammers who are sending spam? Are you in digest mode and it's hitting on a bunch of email addresses or something?
I've seen it already happen, that spammer subscribed debian mailing list to send spam there. Since debian list policy recommends its members not to reject mail from it (quite correct I'd say, I did whitelist them), it may be interesting for spammers to spam through them
I think they are wrong and not understand. Could someone kindly beat the over the head with instruction on how to whitelist listz.debian.org so that it is not blocked even if a surbl blacklisted URL is in the mail?
It depends on the way BMTS uses surbl...
I've seen it already happen, that spammer subscribed debian mailing list to send spam there. Since debian list policy recommends its members not to reject mail from it (quite correct I'd say, I did whitelist them), it may be interesting for spammers to spam through them
To me, it sounds like the debian list needs to change to moderator approval for subscriptions AND your ISP needs to use RBLs in a manner more consistent with understanding that it is not designed to be an MTA block.
Regards, KAM
What domain is blacklisted?
Can you get a copy of the bounce message?
On 4/15/09, Daniel Dickinson cshore@brucetelecom.com wrote:
Hi,
My ISP (www.bmts.com - Bruce Telecom, reachable at tech@brucetelecom.com) uses surbl to detect and block SPAM, however the debian mailing lists do not and this results in bounces of mail sent to the debian mailing lists and through it to me through my provider. This is bad because the debian mailing lists unsubscribe users who have too many bounces.
My ISP tells me to contact you to get the offending site removed, however I don't object to the site blacklisted, but to the listz.debian.org mail bouncing. I asked them to whitelist it but they just reiterated that I had to contact you.
I think they are wrong and not understand. Could someone kindly beat the over the head with instruction on how to whitelist listz.debian.org so that it is not blocked even if a surbl blacklisted URL is in the mail?
The address of their tech support is tech@brucetelecom.com
Please CC me if this is a busy list as I may then not see the message.
Regards,
Daniel
-- And that's my crabbing done for the day. Got it out of the way early, now I have the rest of the afternoon to sniff fragrant tea-roses or strangle cute bunnies or something. -- Michael Devore GnuPG Key Fingerprint 86 F5 81 A5 D4 2E 1F 1C http://gnupg.org The C Shore (Daniel Dickinson's Website) http://cshore.is-a-geek.com _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.surbl.org http://lists.surbl.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
-----Original Message----- From: discuss-bounces@lists.surbl.org [mailto:discuss-bounces@lists.surbl.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Dickinson Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:51 PM To: discuss@lists.surbl.org Subject: [SURBL-Discuss] Mailing list gets bounces from my mail providerbecause of surbl
Hi,
My ISP (www.bmts.com - Bruce Telecom, reachable at tech@brucetelecom.com) uses surbl to detect and block SPAM,
Actually, they use Google's Postini, which uses SURBL.
My ISP tells me to contact you to get the offending site removed, however I don't object to the site blacklisted, but to the listz.debian.org mail bouncing. I asked them to whitelist it but they just reiterated that I had to contact you.
In your Postini control panel, you can add the debian list to your approved sender list. This will bypass spam filters. http://www.postini.com/help/ Your Bruce Telecom email administrator has done this for you.
I think they are wrong and not understand. Could someone kindly beat the over the head with instruction on how to whitelist listz.debian.org so that it is not blocked even if a surbl blacklisted URL is in the mail?
Now that the debian list is whitelisted for your account, no head beatings are necessary.
- Kevin
PS - Jeff or other SURBL devs, if you want the offending email headers, etc., let me know. It looks like it was Postini that blocked a message, based on a SURBL listing for medlistsources<munged>.com. Perhaps we need to get ahold of Google re: blocking policy?
On 4/16/09, Kevin Olson kevino@mxtools.com wrote:
It looks like it was Postini that blocked a message, based on a SURBL listing for medlistsources<munged>.com.
Thanks for the reference. It looks like the "I sell lists of doctors' email addresses spammer" is sending spam to debian mailing lists. A couple responses to this:
1. The debian list admins should do a better job of filtering spam from their lists, including by using SURBLs.
2. The list receivers could whitelist the debian lists around their local spam filtering, but this is really fixing the problem in the wrong way. There should not be spam on the mailing lists in the first place.
Cheers,
Jeff C.
On 4/16/09, Kevin Olson kevino@mxtools.com wrote:
It looks like it was Postini that blocked a message, based on a SURBL listing for medlistsources<munged>.com.
On 16.04.09 23:27, Jeff Chan wrote:
Thanks for the reference. It looks like the "I sell lists of doctors' email addresses spammer" is sending spam to debian mailing lists. A couple responses to this:
- The debian list admins should do a better job of filtering spam
from their lists, including by using SURBLs.
- The list receivers could whitelist the debian lists around their
local spam filtering, but this is really fixing the problem in the wrong way. There should not be spam on the mailing lists in the first place.
While this is true, note that some spam will still get there, if debian lists are early recipients for the spam, so the whitelisting should not be avoided.
Jeff Chan a écrit :
On 4/16/09, Kevin Olson kevino@mxtools.com wrote:
It looks like it was Postini that blocked a message, based on a SURBL listing for medlistsources<munged>.com.
Thanks for the reference. It looks like the "I sell lists of doctors' email addresses spammer" is sending spam to debian mailing lists. A couple responses to this:
- The debian list admins should do a better job of filtering spam
from their lists, including by using SURBLs.
They are trying hard. They use policyd-weight, spamassassin, ... etc.
- The list receivers could whitelist the debian lists around their
local spam filtering, but this is really fixing the problem in the wrong way. There should not be spam on the mailing lists in the first place.
unfortunately, this is not realistic.
-
Daniel Dickinson -
Jeff Chan -
Kevin A. McGrail -
Kevin Olson -
Matus UHLAR - fantomas -
mouss