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RE: [SURBL-Discuss] 'Geocities Spam' ... a miracle ?
by Chris Santerre 16 Dec '05

16 Dec '05

> -----Original Message----- > From: List Mail User [mailto:track@plectere.com] > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:47 AM > To: discuss(a)lists.surbl.org > Cc: track(a)plectere.com > Subject: Re: [SURBL-Discuss] 'Geocities Spam' ... a miracle ? > > > >... > >Hi, > > > >Looks like, after months ignoring the problem, a miracle finally > >happened at Yahoo / Geocities tonight ... > > > >Yesterday, my list of alive Geocities spammy sites was more than 350 > >names long. > > > >Tonight it's down to ... 14 Geocities sites ! All others > have been shutdown > >... > > Let us hope that some proactive mechanism is now shutting them > down, and that hometown.aol.com doesn't pickup all the slack > (where I've > been seen them from recently). The worse case would have been if they > just downloaded your list and checked and shut those - the 14 > left implies > that some other means was used (which is by far preferable). > SWEEET!! +1 on the aol! This is a good day! --Chris

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One way to handle the Geocities spam
by John Graham-Cumming 15 Dec '05

15 Dec '05

How about transforming a Geocities URL into a DNS query like this: http://uk.geocities.com/xyz/ becomes xyz.geocities.com.multi.surbl.org And then we could SURBL check the individual pages within Geocities. In a way geocities.com is just another TLD. John. -- John Graham-Cumming jgc(a)jgc.org Home: http://www.jgc.org/ Blog: http://www.jgc.org/blog/ POPFile: http://getpopfile.org/ GNU Make Standard Library: http://gmsl.sf.net/ GNU Make Debugger: http://gmd.sf.net/ Fast, Parallel Builds: http://www.electric-cloud.com/ Sign up for my Spam and Anti-spam Newsletter at http://www.jgc.org/

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RE: [SURBL-Discuss] Possible FP...
by Chris Santerre 12 Dec '05

12 Dec '05

> -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Broens [mailto:surbl@alexb.ch] > Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 10:07 AM > To: SURBL Discussion list > Subject: Re: [SURBL-Discuss] Possible FP... > > > Chris Santerre wrote: > > 2.0 URIBL_WS_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the > WS SURBL blocklist > > [URIs: promoreply .com] > > > > I'm not sure on the history of this domain. It was marked in a legit > > subscribed newsletter from one of my users. Doesn't mean it > isn't a spammer > > however. If anyones got some good evidence, I'll gladly > contact the legit > > newsletter and tell them not to use them. > > > > This domain was hosting all the images in the legit HTML email. > > Chris > > sorta curious... > > What was the newsletter domain? > > I have promoreply. com listed locally since Jan 2005 (no > more evidence > from back then) roadrunnersports.com I think they recently started using this listed domain to host images. Because the user has been subscribed for a long time (Greater then 3 yrs). I *think* this is the first time they have hit a URIBL list. --Chris

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Possible FP...
by Chris Santerre 12 Dec '05

12 Dec '05

2.0 URIBL_WS_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the WS SURBL blocklist [URIs: promoreply .com] I'm not sure on the history of this domain. It was marked in a legit subscribed newsletter from one of my users. Doesn't mean it isn't a spammer however. If anyones got some good evidence, I'll gladly contact the legit newsletter and tell them not to use them. This domain was hosting all the images in the legit HTML email. Chris Santerre SysAdmin and SARE/URIBL ninja http://www.uribl.com http://www.rulesemporium.com

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surbl false positive?
by mouss 09 Dec '05

09 Dec '05

Hi all, Is there a reason why mobileav-DEMUNGED.org is listed on surbl? I checked their site, and it doesn't seem to be a spam site.

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How can I test SURBL is working?
by List 21 Nov '05

21 Nov '05

Hi, I have 1) [root@beyond ~]# rpm -q caching-nameserver caching-nameserver-7.3-3 2) Net::DNS is up to date. 3) /usr/bin/perl -T -w /usr/bin/spamd -L -x -u vpopmail Running on FC4 with SpamAssassin 3.10, init.pre has loadplugin Mail::SpamAssassin::Plugin::URIDNSBL How do i test SA is running with SURBL. I dont see any hit on any email since the day(6 months now) i had installed SA. Best regards

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yahoo.com and ebaystatic.com in sc.surbl.org yesterday
by Giorgio 18 Nov '05

18 Nov '05

I've seen that yahoo.com and ebaystatic.com where included for a short period of time in sc.surbl.org yesterday (November 17). It seems really strange to me since this two servers are even present in the SURBL global whitelist. Ex: dig yahoo.com.multi.surbl.org ; <<>> DiG 9.2.2-P1 <<>> yahoo.com.multi.surbl.org ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 54931 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 14, ADDITIONAL: 12 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;yahoo.com.multi.surbl.org. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: yahoo.com.multi.surbl.org. 6700 IN A 127.0.0.2 ;; Query time: 23 msec ;; SERVER: xxxxxxxx#53(xxxxxxxx) ;; WHEN: Thu Nov 17 17:36:53 2005 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 475 Does anybody know what happened ? Thanks, Giorgio

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FTC Finds Affiliates and Hosts both responsible in spam case
by Jeff Chan 18 Nov '05

18 Nov '05

This case gives CAN-SPAM some teeth to go after both affiliates and the hosts they advertise. It's also a precedent worth mentioning to those who say they have no responsibility for their affiliates. http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2005/11/globalnet.htm For Release: November 17, 2005 Spammers Barred from Violating Federal Law Operators Required to Keep Closer Eye on Affiliated E-mail Programs Spammers who sent millions of illegal e-mail messages including sexually explicit messages have paid $621,000 to settle Federal Trade Commission charges that their practices violated federal laws. The settlement will bar future violations and will require the marketers to monitor their affiliates to assure they are complying with federal laws, as well. According to the FTC complaint filed in January 2005, the defendants sold access to sexually explicit Web sites through spam. Four defendants control a network of corporations that own and operate the Web sites, payment systems, and servers used to distribute and sell sexually explicit content. One defendant was an affiliate hired to market the content from the Web sites. While the affiliate sent many of the e-mails that allegedly violated federal law, under the CAN-SPAM Act all of the defendants are responsible for the e-mails, including the defendants who paid others to send the e-mails on their behalf. [...] Jeff C. -- Don't harm innocent bystanders.

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FTC Finds Affiliates and Hosts both responsible in spam case
by Jeff Chan 18 Nov '05

18 Nov '05

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Re: [SURBL-Discuss] RFC: Add hosts like tripod.com to two-level-tld list?
by List Mail User 18 Nov '05

18 Nov '05

Alan, >Hi > >2005/11/16, List Mail User track-at-plectere.com |surbl list| ><...>: >> >... >> JeffC of SURBL asked: >> >> >It has been suggested that we could deal with the tripod.com >> >[snip Jeff's original message/question] >> > >> >> The hard-coding into applications is just plain wrong for a few >> reasons; Any list *should* be updatable. Some RHS BLs already support >> arbitrary subdomains (example: biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com has many more problems >> than yahoo.com or most yahoo.com subdomains). For DSN, RCVD and other >> header rules, the "top" domain, (e.g. "ca.us") may not have, or even be >> required to have an abuse and/or postmaster account (just one possible type >> of example), but the subdomains either do have them or would trigger tests >> or rules for them (a domain with no 'A' or 'MX' records may not need to >> provide any mail services, though its subdomains should and do - your >> losangeles.ca.us vs. "ca.us" example). Also note that some MTAs (eg. >> Postfix) already check *all* of the subdomains in a hostname against RHS RBLs. >> >> One problem with this is the syntax for DNS "wildcards" transcends >> subdomain levels, so I believe the files/domains should be kept separate from >> the "true" two-level TLDs, because unfortunately a check for '*.domain.tld' >> should really be performed also (e.g. '*.domain.tld' in a DNS zone file will >> match 'l5.l4.l3.domain.tld' as well as the simple 'l3.domain.tld') and this >> leads to increased overhead for DNS based net tests (without the check, the >> containing domain cannot be determined by heuristics alone). >> > >I don't fully "get" you're text, but are wildcards not an easy solution? Below, but the important point is you can not expect wildcards to be in the RHS DNSBLs themselves. > >If a domain is blacklisted it seems normal to blacklists all subdomains. >So blacklist *.domain.tld Yes, agreed; But only implicitly, not by adding (possibly unknown) subdomains into the BL itself. I mean/intend for the onus to be on the application to check. More below. > >If only a subdomain is blacklisted add *.subdomain.domain.tld but not >*.domain.tld Again, yes, agreed. The same as the previous point - i.e. they are "added" only logically from the application's point of view, not actually into the RHS DNSBL. > >*.domain.tld can be whitelisted, or it can be a central "surbl" choice >only to work with more levels for some domains. A different issue, but a good point. Probably even more valuable for ESPs with known "hammy" *.l3a.SLD.TLD cases, but where you don't want to whitelist the *.SLD.TLD case (it might be "grey" and/or other l3b.SLD.TLB cases might be spammy). > >Applications will benefit if they are rewritten to check the full >domain instead of a stripped domain. As far as I understand it those >written for the current standard will keep working like they are doing >now. One point is that there already exist applications that check the unstripped domain and all parent domains (except for possibly treating the TLD specially). This means that an application would have to check more than a single DNS entry if the FQDN has more than a single dot; What those checks should be is part of the "wildcard" issue addressed below. > >The nice part is that the applications don't need to store extra data. > >It seems so easy to me that I'm certain that I'm missing something >(stupid). I do understand that it's possible there will be less >caching from dns lookups. I don't know if wildcards are cached on the >wildcard level or with the exact supplied dns name. > At least with BIND, they are kept as the query, so if you query a wildcard (i.e. *.something), that is what is cached. It is conceivable that other DNS implementations cache keyed on the response, which may not always be the same thing. I don't know what all possible name servers do. >I hope this is clear and not to stupid. Yes, it is clear, and not stupid; I should have gone into more detail. At issue is when an application is presented with a FQDN, what is the first containing domain - for l5.l4.l3.SLD.TLD, it may not be any of l5.l4.l3.SLD.TLD, l4.l3.SLD.TLD or l3.SLD.TLD in the presence of wildcards. On the assumption (previously unstated) that you do not want to and can not cause operators to make wildcard entries in the RHS DNSBLs; So you would want to first determine in reverse order (from the SLD to the subdomains) if any wildcard entry exists in DNS to find the largest containing domain. A failure to do this could lead to a DoS by a spammer wildcarding SLD.TLD, but always using URIs of a format ln.ln_minus1.ln_minus2...SLD.TLD - in effect cause a very large number of worthless lookups which would both place load in the name servers at both ends and add/poison the cache with a large number of negative result entries; The only way I see to avoid this is to determine the first containing domain - If this behavior is adopted, there is no gain or incentive for arbitrarily large subdomain chains and the typical case will remain one lookup, but when two or more would be needed, an additional lookup for every subdomain from the SLD up would be need to check for the existence of a wildcard first (terminating if one is found), this lead to one extra lookup for the currently common case of l3.SLD.TLD, since before the lookup, we don't know if it is a simple host within the SLD or a subdomain, which may be wildcarded (and thus would never be in the blacklist). This is of course the corner case which must be checked - what we are really trying to discover is things like l4.l3.SLD.TLD where there exists an entry for *.SLD.TLD and no entry for l3.SLD.TLD, or l5.l4.l3.SLD.TLD where a *.l3.SLD.TLD exists and l3.SLD.TLD is "spammy", but SLD.TLD is not or is merely "grey", and *no* entry for l4.l3.SLD.TLD exists because it is wildcarded (e.g. the tripod-com case and many ESPs). This also implies two more lookups for the common case of l3.SLD.TLD, where the first "new" lookup is a check for the existance of *.SLD.TLD, and if that fails (though it will often succeed) a check if the string l2.SLD.TLD is a domain or a host, we we know which whether to present one or query queries to the DNSBL (i.e. two if it is a domain - seen by any SOA returned in a query - since we then want to check both the subdomain and the parent, resulting in a total of three more lookups that are done today in SA when l3.SLD.TLD is a subdomain, not merely a host, quite literally four times as many for that relatively common case, but only twice as many if a wildcard is found - common, but not universal for most spam domains). Of course, this isn't quite as bad as it sounds, since the DNS lookup for the actual FQDN are shared prior to and between all the DNSBL lookups (i.e. they only need be done once, no matter how many RHS DNSBLs are in use). Also there is no need to abandon parallelism, sine the subdomain checks can be performed while the DNSBL lookups on the SLD.TLD are done (which will always be done regardless of the outcome of the wildcard and subdomain checking); Still, there will be an increase in latency since some tests will be dependant on the results of previos DNS queries. I have continued to ignore the complications of processing any CNAMES which occur and make this yet more complex than the mess above already reads. I hope this long-winded explanation is clearer for the points which I glossed over the first time. > >Alain > >>[snip - the rest, which was apparently clear enough] Paul Shupak track(a)plectere.com

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