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RE: [SURBL-Discuss] RFC: SURBL inclusion policy
by Chris Santerre 27 Sep '04

27 Sep '04

>-----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Chan [mailto:jeffc@surbl.org] >Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 4:37 AM >To: SURBL Discuss >Subject: Re: [SURBL-Discuss] RFC: SURBL inclusion policy > > >On Friday, September 24, 2004, 9:35:14 PM, Jeff Chan wrote: >> OK I Updated the policy page, taking Ryan's top rules and general >> organizational comments: > >> http://www.surbl.org/policy.html > >> Please let me/us know what you think of it now. > >Does anyone else have any comments on the updated policy >page for adding new records to manual SURBL lists? It >includes changes thanks to comments from Frank, Ryan, >Joe and others. > >Please reply if you have anything to add or change. > The content is good. Somethings I would change the order of importance, but that is a personal preference. So I say go ahead with it. Are you really not even going to mention UC at all? I know you don't agree with it, but at least letting people know about it to make their own decisions would help. --Chris

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RE: [SPAM-TAG] [SURBL-Discuss] Spammer threatening to suesingle4y ou.net
by Chris Santerre 27 Sep '04

27 Sep '04

>-----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Chan [mailto:jeffc@surbl.org] >Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 11:06 AM >To: SURBL Discuss >Subject: Re: [SPAM-TAG] [SURBL-Discuss] Spammer threatening to >suesingle4y ou.net > > >On Monday, September 27, 2004, 7:53:41 AM, Chris Santerre wrote: >> But the fact that this brand new domain, not even a month >old, sent spam, >> and has been removed because it POTENTIALY might be used in >ham worries me >> beyond belief for this project. > >> I need more then, "He might be used for legitin the future." >as a reason to >> remove a blatant spam fool like this. > >This guy is a tiny flea on the rump of the stampeding herd >of mad bulls who are the real spammers. Whatever he's doing >is insignificant compared to the spam gangs. > Sounds exactly like Drug Enforcment. "Lets go after the bug guys, and not worry about the small guy we caught." Big Guy arrested, small guy takes his place. Where do you think the bigger guys come from, the stork? Hell this guy could be in one of those "Make money from home" scams. And you know what, he will go tell his buddies it ain't worth it because he was blacklisted days after he started. --Chris (Riple in the water.....) --Chris

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RE: [SPAM-TAG] [SURBL-Discuss] Spammer threatening to sue single4 yet
by Chris Santerre 27 Sep '04

27 Sep '04

>-----Original Message----- >From: Ryan Thompson [mailto:ryan@sasknow.com] >Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 10:53 AM >To: SURBL Discussion list >Subject: RE: [SPAM-TAG] [SURBL-Discuss] Spammer threatening to sue >single4yet > > >Chris Santerre wrote to 'Jeff Chan' and 'SURBL Discussion list': > >>> Thanks Joe. Hopefully he's learned his lesson. >> >> What the hell?? I just read this whole thread! I would not have taken >> this guy off! No way in hell!!!!! Ray, add this yahoo to UC please! > >Well, first off, you probably meant "Ryan". Second, single4you.net has >been in UC for for days already. :-) > >> The domain is brand new, sends spam, and screams about >getting listed! >> How the hell can he be legit! Did you guys read the NANAS listings >> that showed his wonderful emails? >> >> These are just the ones reported. He 'purchased' a list. So none of >> these were opt in. > >Agreed! Don't forget the temporal aspect of SURBL. It *was* a spammer >domain, but that doesn't mean it still *is* a spammer domain. > >> This is not the last we will hear of this guy. I think taking him off >> is a mistake. And IF he does it again, I'll report his a$$ to every >> RBL I can find, simply because you guys removed this idiot. > >Well, I'm not worried about it at all, because if he has really cleaned >up his act, we won't hear from him again. Otherwise, if I get confirmed >fresh spam for single4you.net, I'll happily spend the 3 >seconds it takes >to re-list, as I'm sure would many people who have read this >thread. ;-) >I'll be watching my daily GetURI runs very, very closely. :-) > >> --Chris (Jaded, fed up, and tired of the BS.) > >Even while following this thread yesterday, I whitelisted 45 domains, >and listed 24 new ones, from a ~6 hour corpus. I'm not going to let a >little bit of BS about *one* measly domain ruin my fun. > >I know, I had to damn near swallow my own tongue before I recommended >de-listing them, but, the point is, if we aren't responsive to the odd >site possibly changing their act, SURBL (and even UC) will be useless. > >- Ryan > Yup, sorry about that. After I sent it I realized I meant you :) I'm still having fun, and I know it seems that Jeff and I don't get along, but we do. Our differences are good for the lists. If you have had more correspondence with this spammer that leads you to this decision, then I trust you have reasons for removing then. --Chris

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RE: [SPAM-TAG] [SURBL-Discuss] Spammer threatening to suesingle4y ou.net
by Chris Santerre 27 Sep '04

27 Sep '04

>-----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Chan [mailto:jeffc@surbl.org] >Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 10:34 AM >To: SURBL Discuss >Subject: Re: [SPAM-TAG] [SURBL-Discuss] Spammer threatening to >suesingle4y ou.net > > >On Monday, September 27, 2004, 7:25:40 AM, Chris Santerre wrote: >> The domain is brand new, sends spam, and screams about >getting listed! How >> the hell can he be legit! Did you guys read the NANAS >listings that showed >> his wonderful emails? > >> These are just the ones reported. He 'purchased' a list. So >none of these >> were opt in. > >And are those the only emails that ever have or ever will mention >the domain? How can you say that of ANY domain we have listed????????? >Do we know that the domain has no legitimate uses or >users? If not should we block all legitimate messages that do >mention the domain? Or any legit message talking about any domain we have listed already?? > >These are difficult questions which we attempted to answer. > >It's much easier to list them, but is that fair to people >who actually use or mention the site in hams? > Show me one freaking legit ham from him!! Where the hell do we draw the line??? I can literaly argue that ANY, and I mean ANY of the domains we have listed have the potential to be used in ham. But the fact that this brand new domain, not even a month old, sent spam, and has been removed because it POTENTIALY might be used in ham worries me beyond belief for this project. I need more then, "He might be used for legitin the future." as a reason to remove a blatant spam fool like this. You're obviously not going to add him back in. So I'm going to wath this guy closer then his proctologist! I'll be all over this guy in every way. When he trips up, I will be there. I be he is relisted in under 3 months. Am I pissed he got removed, yes. Am I pissed at Jeff, no. He is still my schmoopie! :-) Do I think Jeff might have fallen on his head this weekend........ ....it crossed my mind ;) --Chris

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Re: [SURBL-Announce] ANNOUNCE: ccTLDs in two-level-tlds file updated somewhat
by Leonardo Helman 27 Sep '04

27 Sep '04

Hi, don't forget: esc.edu.ar (elementary schools, high schools and other (non-universitary educational institutions). uba.ar (Buenos Aires University) educ.ar There was a thread on this list started by Mariano Absatz on Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:41:30 On Sun, Sep 26, 2004 at 09:22:23PM -0700, Jeff Chan wrote: > On Saturday, September 18, 2004, 11:58:56 PM, Frank Ellermann wrote: > > [Konqueror list] > >>> | name,ai,au,bd,bh,ck,eg,et,fk,il,in,kh,kr,mk,mt,na, > >>> | np,nz,pg,pk,qa,sa,sb,sg,sv,ua,ug,uk,uy,vn,za,zw > > I have updated the ccTLDs for the ones Frank mentioned, > removed some duplicates, and added some data for a few > other ccTLDs. The results are in: > > http://spamcheck.freeapp.net/two-level-tlds > > Really this is just for completeness since geographic > domains other than .us aren't used in spams too often. > > Jeff C. > -- > "If it appears in hams, then don't list it." > > _______________________________________________ > Announce mailing list > Announce(a)lists.surbl.org > http://lists.surbl.org/mailman/listinfo/announce

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FP on WS & DS
by Bill Landry 27 Sep '04

27 Sep '04

vault. com is listed on WS & DS. Bill

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Spammer threatening to sue single4you.net
by Joe Wein 27 Sep '04

27 Sep '04

Here's some mail exchange with a spammer who's threating me with a lawsuit. On August 25 I received spam advertising single4you.net in the feed from Prolocation. There were several NANAS postings for it and I blacklisted it. On September 1, the domain owner tried to contact me, but got stuck in my mailfilter, as his sending domain was listed. ==== From: "Webmaster" <mail(a)single4you.net> To: <joewein(a)pobox.com> Sent: Wednesday, 01 September, 2004 9:58 Subject: Spammer??? Why are you blacklisting me? Who put you in charge? If you want to run a spam blacklist, make sure to pick the ones who are spammer’s not small businesses who are trying to make a living. But I guess you don’t’ care and feel good about yourself driving hard working folks like me into the ground. Christian Schiffer Webmaster Singles4you.net ==== Since then I added instructions to my site to help people wanting to contact me to get through the filter and he tried again: ==== From: "Christian Schiffer" <memberservice(a)single4you.net> To: <joewein(a)pobox.com> Sent: Sunday, 26 September, 2004 20:19 Subject: [BLACKLIST] www.single4you.net Notice of legal action Dear Sir, We purchased an opt inn mailing list witch we later found to be no so opt inn as we thought. As soon as we became aware of this we stopped using it. This was a one time mistake from our side and we decided to stop using bulk mail altogether to prevent further mistakes. Instead we purchase other services witch do not include e-mail advertising at all. Therefore we demand to be taken of your list within 24 hours as well as getting written confirmation that you have done this. We did send you an e-mail to witch you neglected to reply in a nice tone of voice several weeks ago. Because of your false accusations more then 50% of our customers witch all have explicitly asked to get e-mail from us are not getting their member mail, notice of e-mails from other members who wish to contact them and so forth. This is totally unacceptable and you are forcing us to sue you for a substantial amount should you not stop blacklisting our domain. We are sure that you wish to stop spamming problems and we find such an effort admirable as every legitimate business on the internet is suffering from spam; however, we are not spammers. We would prefer to solve this matter peacefully, and if you have further questions or concerns please don’t hesitate to bring them to our attention, but be also assured that we will have no other option that to go to severe legal actions against you should you choose to neglect this e-mail and continue your blacklisting of our company. In the future we would advice you to contact businesses you are suspecting to be spammers before making false accusations. Any business witch is falsely accused of spam will have a working return mail address on the mail the send out. And so do we, we had a working return address on our mails before and we have it now, solely because we are not spammers. We are looking forward to hear from you today. Sincerely yours Christian Schiffer webmaster(a)single4you.net www.single4you.net ==== Here's my reply: ==== > Dear Sir, Mr Schiffer, let's get a few things straight: > We purchased an opt inn mailing list witch we later found > to be no so opt inn as we thought. In other words, you are admitting that you sent spam advertising your website. Yet you demand your domain to be removed from a list of domains advertised via spam. As someone who runs a business, you should be familiar with the legal situation of sending bulk email. Since January 1, 20004, sending bulk email to recipients without a valid postal mail address for unsubscribing is a violation of US Federal Law ("Can Spam Act of 2003"), signed into law by President Bush last December. You emails included no such address. Furthermore, sending email to recipients in the European Union with whom one neither has an ongoing business relationship nor who have granted permission to send them email is a violation of EU law. Spam is not about how often you email someone, it is about (lack of) consent. As the anti-spam community has explained for a long time, the only way to avoid spamming people when sending bulk email is to only use confirmed opt-in lists that you yourself have built. Any other approach risks sending bulk email to persons who have not given their consent. > As soon as we became aware of this we stopped using it. > This was a one time mistake from our side and we decided > to stop using bulk mail altogether to prevent further mistakes. Well, that's obviously better than continuing to break the law, but it does not undo the violations that have already happened. You are standing on very shaky ground. > Therefore we demand to be taken of your list within 24 hours > as well as getting written confirmation that you have done this. On what legal grounds? I stated on my website that your domain has been advertised in spam. That is obviously true. In your latest email you yourself admit to that fact. I have copies of at least one unsolicited bulk email for every domain on my blacklist, including yours. The one that advertised your domain was received on August 25, 2004. Furthermore, there is evidence by other people that we came across when we researched your domain, which confirmed our conclusions. For example, take a look at these usenet postings: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=single4you.net > We did send you an e-mail to witch you neglected to > reply in a nice tone of voice several weeks ago. That email didn't make it through our spamfilter, because it originated from a blacklisted domain. To avoid communication problems like that I later addded the advice about [BLACKLIST] in the subject line. That's how we could finally communicate. > Because of your false accusations more then 50% > of our customers witch all have explicitly asked to > get e-mail from us are not getting their member mail, I am not blocking email to your customers. I don't control the mail servers they are using. The only mail I control is the for my own email accounts. When I publish which domains I refuse mail from, I only exercise my freedom of speech. It is up to the postmasters of other servers which mails they choose to accept and which they refuse. But more to the point, even if I were to remove you from my personal list, you would still find your emails blocked because there are numerous other people who have received spam for your domain and added you to blacklists. My personal advice to you is to register a different domain and gradually switch over to that (and this time keep your hands clean). Unfortunately for you, the damage to your domain name is already done and you have no one else to blame for that but your own carelessness. Regards Joe Wein Yokohama, Japan ==== From: "Christian Schiffer" <memberservice(a)single4you.net> To: "'Joe Wein'" <joewein(a)pobox.com> Sent: Monday, 27 September, 2004 0:11 Subject: RE: [BLACKLIST] www.single4you.net Notice of legal action Mr. Wein, This is the absolute last warning. The accusation of spam against our company is not correct; furthermore we do not admit having spammed anyone at any point in time. That the business we purchased our mailing list from are spammers is not our fault, if you need to put someone on your blacklist, put them on, they are the once behind spam, they were advertising their opt inn list as a consented list of users interested in our product. Hiding behind the freedom of speech act and denying other the same right is ridicules. I will not waste anymore time with you but hand over this matter to our lawyer's tomorrow morning. That you admit not having even tried to contact us, having blacklisted us without any reason or concern and then even admitting to hiding by denying our e-mail speaks for itself. Even now after the second mail explaining how this could happen and trying to reach a friendly solution you are still in denial of your offence. We will therefore sue you not only for the business lost in the future but also for the business lost in the past. You are looking at a multimillion dollar lawsuit; I hope you can afford that. I also suspect you working for the completion and our law firm will investigate that too. Should you choose not too submit to our demands within the hour this will be your loss. I can assure you that we will take any action possible within the law to bring you down, both financial and personal, for trying to wreck our business. Christian Schiffer ==== That's it so far Joe -- http://www.joewein.de/sw/spam.htm

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Whitelist Request
by Bitz 27 Sep '04

27 Sep '04

The followings domains are listed at WS_URI_RBL, can we whitelist them please? :-) npd . com - Record created on 27-Jan-1995 sendafriend . com - Record created on 09-Sep-1999 feelgoodpages . com - Record created on 26-Oct-2000 I don't personally use sendafriend and feelgoodpages, but as jeff states on his previous e-mails, they have legit use and shouldn't be listed :-) Thanks, -b.

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mbox folders needed
by Ryan Thompson 26 Sep '04

26 Sep '04

Hi everybody, By popular demand, I'm adding mbox support to GetURI (currently it just works with maildir; directories containing RFC822 messages). I only have a couple different examples of mbox folders from my system. Would a few of you mind sending me some representative mbox samples (10-1000 messages would be ideal)? Either ham or spam is fine. You can compress (.tar.gz preferred, but .zip is okay) and email them to me, or just provide me with a URL to download. I'll delete them once I've run my tests, and I won't make a point of reading the actual messages. - Ryan -- Ryan Thompson <ryan(a)sasknow.com> SaskNow Technologies - http://www.sasknow.com 901-1st Avenue North - Saskatoon, SK - S7K 1Y4 Tel: 306-664-3600 Fax: 306-244-7037 Saskatoon Toll-Free: 877-727-5669 (877-SASKNOW) North America

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Re: [SURBL-Discuss] Question re: integration with SpamAssassin 3.0
by alden＠engineno9inc.com 26 Sep '04

26 Sep '04

>Hi! >>> A grep inside your rules dir would have told ;) >>> >>> 25_uribl.cf:urirhssub URIBL_SC_SURBL multi.surbl.org. A 2 >>> 25_uribl.cf:urirhssub URIBL_WS_SURBL multi.surbl.org. A 4 >>> 25_uribl.cf:urirhssub URIBL_PH_SURBL multi.surbl.org. A 8 >>> 25_uribl.cf:urirhssub URIBL_OB_SURBL multi.surbl.org. A 16 >>> 25_uribl.cf:urirhssub URIBL_AB_SURBL multi.surbl.org. A 32 >> While it's true that the rules are there, don't we have to add scores to >> local.cf? (I upgraded this AM, too). >No, the scores are in the default rulesets. Again, a simple grep would >have told you ;) >[root at vmx01 spamassassin]# grep SURBL * | grep score >50_scores.cf:score URIBL_AB_SURBL 0 2.007 0 0.417 >50_scores.cf:score URIBL_OB_SURBL 0 1.996 0 3.213 >50_scores.cf:score URIBL_PH_SURBL 0 0.839 0 2.000 >50_scores.cf:score URIBL_SC_SURBL 0 3.897 0 4.263 >50_scores.cf:score URIBL_WS_SURBL 0 0.539 0 1.462 >Bye, >Raymond. Yep. Just realized it before I read this. Sorry, and thanks! --Alden

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